I have an old (2004) ABBAC 50 litre, 2hp compressor.
I bought it second hand around 2014 (faulty) so I got a service kit and rebuilt the motor.
It's served me well since, but is now not reaching full pressure (as it was when I bought it) and I've contacted the supplier and service parts are no long available so looks like I'm going to have to replace it.
I always said when it's time to replace it I'd like to get 100 litre one as it would be more useable.
However there's a couple of 'cons'.
1. Cost. Looking at £300ish.
2. Thinking when I want to do a quick tyre pressure check, I'll have to fill a 100 litre tank.
3. It will take up more space.
So wondering if spending a decent amount to get a good spec 50 litre one, rather than an entry level 100 litre and keep my old 50 litre tank and build a coupling system so I can run them joined to give me 100 litre when I need it (high intensity air tools or painting) is a good compromise. I could keep the reserve tank out the way when not needed so the compressor won't take up so much space. Or should I just bite the bullet and go for 100 litres (but still keeping the old one to give 150 litres if needed).
On my radar at the mo
100 litre £300:
https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc100v-100-litre-high-flow-air-compressor
or 50 litre £250:
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/airmaster-tiger-16550-3hp-50-litre-air-compres/
Any thought, advice, personal experience or links to products greatly welcomed. For my it's a big expense so it's important to get it right.
Cheaper 50 litres have a lower air displacement, this one is 14.5cfm which is equal to the 100 litre one above. But should I just spend the extra £50
The other alternative is spend less, a more realistic price of about £125 off eBay and take a chance, I'd still be able to have 100 litre linked capacity just a lower cfm.
You might recall I was sounding out opinions on those wheeled trolleys for moving cars about a few years ago?
Long story short I used SGS for the ones I chose... personally I'd go elsewhere, very bad buying experience.
Took the money, didn't arrive. When I queried wherabouts they wanted more postage than quoted but hadn't thought to tell me. Weeks passed then they cancelled the order / were slow to refund.
Product itself wasn't the issue, though in case it matters they were just re-branding generic chinese stuff as their own and I ended up getting them elsewhere for less.
Everyone has an off day but this was via Amazon and there were pages of similarly poor service reviews.
Hmmmm, yes I do remember. Thanks for the input.
I did wonder about the brand as SGS clearly don't manufacture all these things themselves.
I was thinking of firing off a message to SGS about service parts, as there's nothing on their website. Their reply, should they even send one, would no doubt give me a sense of what they're like to deal with.
The good thing about my old one, being a decent brand, parts and servicing items are (were) available. Fair enough for a commercial brand it's their entry level item and is now 17 years old. The service kit I bought (when the compressor was already 10 years old) included a small foam filter which disintegrated to dust so had most likely been on the shelf a long time and was already NOS.
I don't consider equipment like this to be disposable so I'd like to know there are spares available for a decent lifespan afterwards.
The current equivalent of what I have is only £163, I might look again at their range.
Maybe just go up a model to this:
https://www.air-compressorsdirect.co.uk/abac-montecarlo-l25p-9cfm-at-10-bar-run-off-a-13-amp-supply
without getting carried away spending too much, it might be lower cfm but would probably be a better long term investment from a tried and tested brand (not built in China) and stock up on a couple of service kits at time of purchase.
Thought I'd add where I'm at with this. It might help anyone else looking for a home/DIY compressor.
After a few late nights of research, reviews and asking around on other more specific forums.
General opinion is what I'm looking at is mostly all generic (probably Chinese) stuff rebranded. Whilst I'm certain that's the case with SGS as there's no way they manufacture the wide variety of items they sell, it was also suggested that applies even the entry level ABAC ones, although they seem to be their own well established brand and documentation highlights their unique ABAC pump - maybe that's just the bigger models. tbf, they all do seem to have very similar case mouldings etc.
So from that point of view it doesn't really matter which brand I go for, it's all about spec of the machine.
I've been pointed towards belt driven, as apparently they are considerably quieter and because they have a separate pump and motor (connected via a belt) it makes it easier (and potentially cheaper) to replace one or the other if needed in the future. And because the motor is kind of an auxiliary part, like for like replacement isn't even needed.
Sounds good right, well there's a catch.
Belt driven are generally more expensive, although I have found some that would be a consideration as only a shade over my set £300 budget. But the issue is these are considered to be industrial machines not domestic, and although some are sold with a 13amp plug fitted it is required they have a dedicated (over 16 amp) power supply, i.e. a separate ring main like your cooker has.
Without this you risk tripping the power on every start up, and reading peoples feedback this is common on forums.
Whilst I have had the house re-wired and the Garage has it's own consumer unit (replaced last year) the circuit breakers in the Garage are only 16 amp and generally our electrics are very sensitive so I'm just not going to chance it as I would find that massively annoying.
And with regards to belt drive being quieter. I'm a tad confused by this comment as the written specs don't indicate this. Also maybe the sound is softer and more acceptable. I mean decibels is how loud right, not how annoying.
My current oilless direct drive has a 99db sticker on it.
The up to date equivalent model is rated at 75db. What I would get if I just wanted a direct replacement :
https://www.air-compressorsdirect.co.uk/abac-piston-compressors/abac-direct-drive/abac-montecarlo-o20p-8cfm-at-8-bar-run-off-a-13-amp-supply
A better spec, oiled lubricated one, which was a strong contender is rated at 73db:
https://www.air-compressorsdirect.co.uk/abac-piston-compressors/abac-direct-drive/abac-montecarlo-l30p-11cfm-at-10-bar-run-off-a-13-amp-supply
However asking I was recommended this brand and when looking they had a belt driven one, so I thought great (before I found out about the power supply issue)
https://gtair.co.uk/air-compressors/1-burisch-bt-390t-90-litre-3hp-belt-drive-air-compressor-5060523510009.html
but delivery on this was going to push the price up over the £300 budget.
so if I was going to spend more, that brings me back to this that seems to be identical but would be a few quid less.
This says 99db, same as what I currently have - so this one was winning through till I saw the power issue:
https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc90b-90-litre-air-compressor-14cfm
I assume the power issue would be the same for the SGS and the Burisch one, and all of this type. Just some suppliers don't seem to warn you.
I did find this bargain generic unknown brand one on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08ZJZT315/?coliid=I1ON6FACP7SQ1P&colid=3QQB76UI7FWO3&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
But if it looks cheap and crap in the pictures I wonder what it would be like in real life, whilst the price is attractive I'd be very worried about after sales support, warranty claims and parts availability.
and finally after going all around the house I'm back to the SGS 100 direct drive one, which I'm fairly sure will be the one I go for say 97db, so would be on par with what I'm used to, if not a shade quieter:
https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc100v-100-litre-high-flow-air-compressor
Now what I didn't factor when looking at the ABAC ones, is the prices are shown minus VAT and shipping, so looking at maybe not spending so much, but the time it's in the basket I'm at over £300 anyway so may as well go for the last one I linked!!!
It might be Chinese, it might be noisy, but it will be bigger, more powerful, more useful and possibly quieter than what I currently have to compare it with. So it has to be a step up, without getting carried away into professional machines and spending a fortune.
And about SGS, I fired off an email raising my concerns about parts availability and I had a callback 8am next day, which I missed, but they followed up with an email stating "Rest assured we supply all spares, back up and comprehensive support." whether it's true or not, they were on the ball with the reply. Perhaps L90E was just unlucky. Or maybe they put the effort into Pre-sales and not After-sales.
So sure it's not long before I hit the buy now button. I think I'm almost there with my decision.
If you plan to do any paint spraying I think you will want a twin piston motor. Apparently reduces splatter when the tank starts to refill and refills quicker.
At least I think I read that somewhere.
If you plan to do any paint spraying I think you will want a twin piston motor. Apparently reduces splatter when the tank starts to refill and refills quicker.
At least I think I read that somewhere.
Yes. The motors are essentially 2 stroke. so rather than being inhale, exhale, with 2 opposing pistons when one is inhaling the other is exhaling. So there's a smoother more continuous flow of air rather than a pulse. Not sure how belt drive work but I guess there's a similar theory as the air slow is not a direct result of the exhale of the motor, instead the motor drives a separate pump which is probably able give air continuously.
The last one I linked, which was the first one I linked in my original post is a twin piston motor. So as well as smoother I guess is can deliver more capacity filling the tank sooner.
Another point I've learned. I was told once to always empty and drain the compressor after use. Moisture builds up inside the tank and as they're metal you don't want them to rust inside. You also don't want moisture in your air as this will be added to the paint. However thinking back I think I was told this at college when I was airbrushing and had a small 1.5 litre air brush compressor. Maybe it was more important on a smaller scale.
Anyway talking to people now about this and they all tend to leave their compressors pressurised permanently. Meaning when you come to use it, it's already ready and you don't need to wait for the tank to fill. Assuming you have no leaks, and if you do you should fix them!
So if I do that, my concern over filling a 100 litre tank instead of a 50 litre would take longer is not longer anything to worry about. And I suppose moisture traps on the outlet solve the moisture in air issue. I have a double trap on my current one. So I'll fit that to any new one I get as it dosen't look like they come with any.
So I did a buy, I went with option A https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc100v-100-litre-high-flow-air-compressor
(https://www.sgs-engineering.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/sc100v-side_2.jpg)
It might be noisy and a belt drive might be better, but it's the best compromise for value for money and usability for DIY/Hobby use.
I've also promised Carole she'll never have to paint another fence panel with a brush, as they can now be sprayed, therefore presenting it to the 'accountant' as a priceless asset.
3-5 days delivery so with the pending bank holiday weekend I probably won't get it for ages
I recommend getting an airline on a retractable real if you can. Mine isn't and it's a right pain
I recommend getting an airline on a retractable real if you can. Mine isn't and it's a right pain
I’ve got one on a reel but not retractable. But it’s rolled backwards if you get what I mean so you roll it out with you to the car. It works well that way.
Came next day, which was Thursday before Bank holiday which was nice. So even though I selected the 3-5 day free delivery option and didn't pay £25 for next day.
It's quieter than my old one, maybe that just shows my old one was more knackered than I thought.
Fills up pretty quick, and hold pressure just fine.
I've just bought the lower powered (9.6 CFM) 50l version of the SGS. Buying expeirence was OK but not great - slow to get back to me and it took a week to send out as they'd put the order on hold but didn't think to tell me that.
It is pretty loud and people did advise on a belt driven one. Mine was bought purely on budget (£150 with a bundle of attachments) as it's my first compressor. I'm hoping the compressor won't run all the time as it will do my head in if that's the case.
I also bought an impact wrench from them that seems of good quality but no matter how much i tighten the threads it still leaks. I guess i need some ptfe tap.
My fusebox in the garage is a 16amp. It runs from another outhouse with it's own fusebox at 16amp. The house is 32amp on the circuit. I've not had any problems in the garage but before my electrics were installed my welder ran on an extenion cable from the outhouse to the garage and that tripped the fusebox.
Yes, budget is always the deciding factor isn't it. And it's easy to get pushed to spend more. I was hoping to stay around the £250 mark, but pushed it up to £300 to get the bigger model, but couldn't justify pushing the budget any further.
Guess I struck lucky with the buying experience.
Old vs New
(https://eddypeck.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/sgs-comp-1.jpg)
(https://eddypeck.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/sgs-comp-2.jpg)
The motor is now stripped off my old one and I just need to work out the correct couplings to use the 50 litre tank as an external reservoir.
I was also talking to Carole about sand blast cabinets, now this one is capable enough to run one, whereas my old one wasn't... possibly one for the Christmas list.
Same compressor as mine, mines been spot on
Old vs New
(https://eddypeck.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/sgs-comp-1.jpg)
(https://eddypeck.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/sgs-comp-2.jpg)
The motor is now stripped off my old one and I just need to work out the correct couplings to use the 50 litre tank as an external reservoir.
I was also talking to Carole about sand blast cabinets, now this one is capable enough to run one, whereas my old one wasn't... possibly one for the Christmas list.
I had a blasting cabinet for a while, a bench one. I would avoid them as they are too shallow.
There are some guides on how to build one.
Think of the biggest thing you may want to blast and go from there, probably a wheel.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abacaircompressors.com%2Fen%2Fprofessional%2Fmobile%2Fstandard%2Fmobile-air-compressors-11l-11l&psig=AOvVaw2-QhmaWbhdnOLZOIFQ2ZWA&ust=1619291440213000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCPDRkumIlfACFQAAAAAdAAAAABAF
Hi, i have this abac compressor, its a 22 litre twin tank, very portable. I bought it used/non runner with the pressure switch missing. Its a great compressor.
My neighbor has a wolf one similar to the SGS one you linked, even thugh they are a similar design, they simply dont compare ! The wolf one doesnt have the cfm, it fills slower and you really get what youre paying for ! I use mine every day, nut busting with impact wrenches, inflating tyres and die grinding cylinder heads- it hasnt skipped a beat. I will change the oil this weekend as its overdue ...
bottom line is i would rather buy 2nd hand than new cheap, chinese, the windings are alluminium which dont last and the fittings are cheaper- for a reason !
I know you're sorted now but; Bambi. Every. Time.
British made, medical quality, the budget silent range are genuinely super quiet (<40dB) and capable of breathing air quality even on the oil lubricated ones, used by majority of dentists etc across the land.
They do bigger stuff for heavy tools, they are simple, reliable and spares are readily available and they don't change the designs that often.
Got mine off eBay, changed the oil, new seal kit for the motor box and rubber feet that had perished and it literally purrs in the corner of the workshop. It's actually a pleasurable noise..
Also available in vertical configuration for space saving.
For example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184861340440?hash=item2b0a983318:g:88cAAOSwbm5gsSUS
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133772378817?hash=item1f257482c1:g:VnIAAOSwU9RgqjV-
The 150/500 is a £1275 unit.
Chris.
Well as an update on this, the new compressor is ace :)) I keep it pressurised now so it's there ready to use all the time. However on first boot is does often trip the electrics. As part of recent home improvements the garage fusebox was updated. Not sure if the electrician downgraded the spec or if the new breakers are just more sensitive.
This was a warning for the belt drive ones and (apart from being a bit cheaper) the main reason I went for this one so really disappointed this one does that and isn't documented anywhere. There is a spare slot in the fuse board so I might see if I can get a dedicated 40 amp socket put in (Not tried my welder yet but I'm expecting that's going to be problematic too >:( )
This was a minor issue, since the garage also holds a freezer of frozen raw dog food, that was allowed to defrost. Luckily it wasn't full. But I now know to keep an eye on it.
What's the MCB rating (incl. the letter)?
I guess it will be a B (i.e. B32). Change it for a C with the same FLC rating. Will allow much higher inrush current from an inductive load (5-10 times, type B is 3-5 times).
You don't need a higher FLC rating if the thing will run with that rating once started, just a different curve.
The Garage is split into 2 parts, a single garage at the front and thanks to a small extension many many years ago (before we moved in) a small workshop on the back of the garage. We moved in 11 years ago and had to have the whole place rewired its a 1960s build. The garage has its own RCB which is fed from the main house one with a super chunky wire. At the time I believe this RCB was considered OK for a garage so whilst the main house RCB was upgraded along with all the wiring, that wasn't changed just new wire, lights and sockets throughout the garage and workshop area.
Last year we had the workshop part of the garage converted to a utility (I was compensated for my loss of workshop with a MASSIVE shed).
I was told the RCB needed to be upgraded now, for domestic use.... or just because ?
The Utility part has B32, but the garage part is now only B16 with another B16 feed off to the shed (outbuilding) this currently ends in a junction box on the outside wall, I haven't run to the shed yet.
Unfortunately I don't know the spec of what was there and didn't have this compressor with that set up, but my old (half the size) compressor worked no issue. I suspect the sockets in the garage are OK for 32 Amp system and swapping the breaker to B32 would be OK, I could run an extension from the Utility, but I haven't tried that yet.
Or maybe if what you've said above for a B32 to C32 would work maybe I just need a C16 ?
tbf, I don't really know and I chatted to a mate (who's a plumber - but has trained to be electrician, just never bothered to go qualified) who said if I burn the house down the insurance might be invalid as my and even then, if we sell by certificates for the work done wouldn't be valid. Happy to take any advice on this though as you seen to know what you're talking about.
You can only swap to 32 if it's a ring main. Max on single 2.5 T&E is about 26 amps so radial (daisy chain) circuits are always fused lower, you would have to follow the cables to the sockets to see what you have but I would suspect radial if it's fused at 16A.
Yeah C16 would allow more inrush startup current. Motors can pull up to 6x their full load current (normal 'loaded' running current) on startup. B MCBs are intended for mainly resistive (non inductive) domestic loads, any motor is or can be inductive (washing machine etc) but they are specifically designed for domestic applications. An industrial (non domestic) motor design doesn't care about inrush or inductance loading.
In theory if you change anything in your electrical system you are taking responsibility for it, e.g. the last guy who tested and certified it is off the hook if it goes wrong but swapping a B16 for a C16 can cause no real issues. It's just a different trip curve. You can get a D type for transformers and large machinery with huge inrush/startup currents. Also K and Z for specialist shizz:
(https://i.ibb.co/hM19CDv/MCB-trip-curves.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BPK3wqR)
So your compressor (or anything else) on a B16 or a C16 protected circuit will still trip the MCB if it draws more than 16A eventually. If you get a short to earth the current is going to go huge (multiple times the FLC) and either will trip instantaneously. C will let it draw up to 80A but only for 1 second then it'll trip.
Chris.
Ran the welder tonight, no issues with the power.
Thanks for the info. It makes a little more sense now
Hi chaps, just a Q on the air compressor and tools. I've got a 50l SGS 9.6CFM (the £150 jobby not the £300 14.1CFM jobby I probably should have bought) and some tools like the rotary tool and air saw are pretty pathetic when in use. The rotary tool with a wire wheel stops easily and spins no faster (or not even as fast) as it would in a drill.
What are you guys experiencing on your machine - i think some of you are running the more beefy version of the compressor (14.1CFM) and wondering if it is better for the job.
Cheers
Matt
From my research, I think you need to be looking for 12CFM for most tools. I've also seen it recommended that you have an air hose with a minimum internal diameter of 10mm, so the coil hose that comes with most starter kits isn't much cop. I think my old 50l one was 11CFM and just about got away with some tools although for short periods as the tank would drain quite quick.
Without knowing the spec of the tools you have, I had a quick look on SGS at their cut off saw. It says it only requires 4.5CFM but does need an air hose of 3/8" ID (9.5mm).
In other news, I had the electrician back and he replaced the breaker a C rated one, after he went I saw he'd put it in the wrong slot so my compressor still trips the garage electrics - doh!