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Topic: Welding... (Read 11630 times) previous topic - next topic

Welding...

Owning a MK2 welding is probably something quite a few of us will need done at some point, to some degree or other.

I'm genuinely envious of members on here who are doing their own and it's something I've promised myself I'm going to try and learn.

Unfortunately that'll be too long a wait for my own MK2 and I've had to get someone in to do that welding.

Because they're coming to me I'm trying to make things as ready as possible for them (and hopefully keep costs down too, if I do the prep.)

I've spent the last while cutting out the 'frilly' bits and cleaning things back to bare metal, plus fabricating the patches to be welded in.

I'm hoping to finish that today or tomorrow and will stick up some pics then, it's too awkward taking them while I'm working.

I'm likely not doing things the expected way as I've no previous experience of getting this type of work done to a car.

I've been watching what others have done on-line etc. but even so I've a feeling there may be a sudden intake of breath when the welder sees what I've done / want him to do!

Likely a bit late asking now, as I've already done the cutting and am committed to what's been done but in general terms, and for the benefit of others, maybe existing welders can put up a few (very) basic tips? 





 

Re: Welding...

Reply #1 –
As you know I have a welder and have been doing some welding lately.

I just thought I'd share my journey.

Back in 2013 I bought the infamous Lunchbreak Project mk2, this was my midlife crisis buy to relive the one I had in my early 20s.

Now if you remember it was a bit of a rot box, however was all original and pretty much untouched (hence rot box) but was mechanically sound and a good runner. Finding one like that now would be an absolute dream.

Anyway, my plan was to use it as it was, it had a years (dubious as it turns out) MOT. I thought I'd see how it was and make sure it was a decent car, and then look to slowly restore. However my hand was forced when I lost the arch trim on the M5 after the metal it was fixed too just rusted out too far.

So I was convinced by a previous club member to hand it over (no names now) for some 'professional' repairs.

Long story short, the guys were morons and wrecked the car, they also damaged the fuel tank allowing water into the system which completely wrecked the fuel system and cost me thousands to get sorted.

The current owner of that car has since spent a fortune having bodywork done, which mostly involved have the stuff I had done redone!!!


Anyway, still eager to learn and knowing with an old car welding will come up again,  in 2014 I signed up at local college for a 12 week course, introduction to restoration. 6 weeks of bodywork, including a welding and 6 weeks of prep, paint and finishing. It was only a few hours one evening a week, but it was a good introduction and only cost about £150 iirc. and while later, after seeking the advise from the guy running the course I invested in a decent welder.

Much more capable than I'd really need but I thought it was better to buy a lifetime welder rather than an entry level one that I might want to replace in years to come.

It's a Sealey Supermig 180 which even today on the Sealey website is almost £700, I paid just over £400 for it in a deal from Demon Tweaks, occasionally similar deals appear online buy generally it's around £500-600.

With gas, wire, regulator etc it was still a big outlay.

And there is sat in my garage.... I think for almost 2 years till I welded a pair of steel wheels together for a firepit for National Meet camping.

Now, as you may or may not know after the previous Golf I got a 1971 Beetle. This failed it's MOT on a small patch of welding....
which I should have easily been able to have done myself. But I had a lot on and knew it could be weeks before I got round to it and was able to resubmit the car to MOT, since they had it at the garage, told me it was only small and wouldn't cost much (less £100 I think) I just gave them the go ahead to get it done so I could at least drive it and enjoy it for summer.

This is when they not only set the car on fire, but fired the alternator by not disconnecting  the battery before welding, and not removing any of the flammable interior.

So, you can see why I don't want to let other people work on my cars!



The next outing for the welder was when I noticed the exhaust on my classic 1980 Suzuki GS1000 was rusting through on the bottom.

Now this was a challenge, not sure if it was stainless steel or chromed, either way I managed it, blew a few holes in the thin metal but got there in the end and painted silver. Luckily it was on the bottom so couldn't be seen.

Bearing in mind a pair of exhausts for this would even be available to buy and something custom would be required the welder probably paid for itself with that one job.

And now, some 6 or 7 years after going to college and buying the welder I'm only finally making use of it. I'm learning on the job and I'm sure I haven't done a great job, but if it passes an MOT and gets me driving the car again I'll be happy. If I continue to practice perhaps I'll pull it apart and redo it in a few more years are part of a larger resto. The welder has certainly paid for itself now.


Totally worth getting into, and no going back for me now. Just wish I'd got into it sooner.

Saying that when I was 15 years old (1990) I bought my first car, my mate was into welding as his dad was, and we borrowed his dads welding kit, was Oxygen Acetylene Gas Welding and together we stuck a new nose cone and pair of wings on my TR7. But he did most of it, if only I'd done more then and kept with it. I didn't drive the car till I was 18 that was my first project.

Re: Welding...

Reply #2 –
Watch plenty of youtube videos, there are thousands out there and some are excellent at giving you advice.

But as you might guess, like paint, it's all in the prep.
The more time you spend planning it out, getting the metal cut out right and making the perfect replacement part, the better the overall look will be.
Kinda ironic, but you have to put masses and masses of effort in to make it look like you haven't done anything at all!
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Re: Welding...

Reply #3 –
Inspiration, if any were needed, thanks.

These are a couple of the patches... the area at the front edge of the rear, nearside arch is probably the most complex and why I'm concentating on it.

I wanted to cut as little out as possible while getting rid of the damaged areas. Because of that I made the patches to fit the holes as it were and not the other way about.

I'm hoping I haven't made it too complex for the welder, he's experienced but I'm not, so don't know what's doable / acceptable / correct!

The idea was he could weld the pieces in, in sequence and build up the repair?

The patches are currently coated in rust converter to keep them clean, some were made weeks ago... I'll clean them up before welding.

The areas on the car I'll prime on their inside faces to do the same and contribute to the final rust protection.











This is the underside of the sill, at the drivers door. One of the grommet holes had become frilly, didn't think it was necessary to re-do the hole so a plain patch instead.





There were mudflaps on the car from new, VW ones with those metal clamp affairs. Unfortunately that'd caused some localised corrosion to the rear edge of both rear arches. Thankfully only one side needed that triangular piece.







The stump on the drivers side was perforated where it meets the floor, Heritages replacement isn't a match but then if you notice that you shouldn't be on your knees looking under my car!









Re: Welding...

Reply #4 –
Very neat! Top tip, remove the rear 'door' cards. Those inner arch sections are hollow and accessible from inside the car. You don't want any fires in case there's wax or seam sealant inside the rear quarter. I had quite a bit of wax in those cavities and started a few small fires but I have the rear cards out and a small spray bottle at the ready. One issue I did have though, putting out a fire with water caused some shrinkage on the panel I was welding making finishing that section a bit harder.

I watched a really good video of a guy doing a flush fit repair but tacking the panel over the hole then cut and weld as you go, pulling the surplus out form the inside. Won't work in every situation but the concept made for a perfect but joint and no gap.

Here you go, thanks to Youtube History found it easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u31t13QO6A

Re: Welding...

Reply #5 –
Very nice job!

One thing, when protecting the inner faces that will be welded, you can get 'weld through' primer. That's essentially zinc, but it stops rust and doesn't prevent the welder from making the necessary circuit.
Mk2 Driver
Mk2 Silver 8v
Corrado G60 Turbo
Mk2 Red 8v
Mk2 Grey 16v
Mk2 BBM ABF
Bora 20vt
Mk2 Green VR6
Mk2 Green ABF
Mk2 BBM 20vt
3.2 TT Roadster
Mk2 Red 16v
225 TT Coup
3.2 TT Coup
Mk4 Anniversary
Mk7 Red GTI Performance
Mk2 Red GTI Restoration
Mk2 BBM R32
911 Carrera 4S

Re: Welding...

Reply #6 –
That's some damn fine prep there, I'd be happy to come and weld that!!

Re: Welding...

Reply #7 –
Cheers... it's taken me quite a while to do just these small pieces, though I'm fortunate not to be under any pressure and can take my time (read that as make mistakes!).

I can't begin to imagine the effort and skill involved in even moderately bigger jobs, let alone full restorations... greater respect than ever now for people who can do this properly and like you say, make it seem like nothing's been touched.

You've hit the nail on the head - Fire is my biggest worry, even the heat created by cutting out the rot had the now liquid wax streaming. Testiment to VW's rust proofing and probably why the car's not a pile of dust after 30 odd years, but going to be a problem and one to watch.

Issues spraying on water's the sort of thing that doesn't occur to a newbie, hence this thread... I've an old 'Halon' fire extinguisher somewhere, think I'll be resurrecting it.

Said it elsewhere, but unfortunately I've ended up doing things all back to front - but more good advice and the interiors definitely coming back out.

Is the weld through primer unaffected by the process and remain there post welding?

I ask because some of the areas I can probably get a new coat of wax to, but others are no longer going to be accessible.



  

Re: Welding...

Reply #8 –
If you get let down with the welder let me know I'd be up for that, need to keep my hand in, would do it for a constant stream of mugs of tea ;-)

Re: Welding...

Reply #9 –
Good luck getting the welding done.
I asked our local college about welding courses. They only have full time courses!
1991 Tornado Red BB 8v GTI Moredoor
2008 Skoda Octy Scout aka dirty diesel

Re: Welding...

Reply #10 –
Thanks Bill, hopefully not need to call on you but good too to know you're available if needed  - cheers.

The welder / mechanic's of an age he worked on MK2's first time around and I think he's doing the work mainly out of nostalgia, more than the money.

I was sounding him out about doing the clutch, before I'd taken it off and he was fit to remember about the rod running through the center and bearing set up - must have a good memory.

Re: Welding...

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Eddypeck on
Here you go, thanks to Youtube History found it easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u31t13QO6A

Just had the chance to watch this... mesmerizing to see him work.

At least I've his good looks and the same swimmers build to take up welding, was like standing in front of the mirror!

At the end he coments on he hopes watchers can understand him, didn't notice anything was wrong myself...  maybe because when he started speaking I went to check his profile - if I'd to put money on it, I'd have guessed he was from Ireland, not Canada.

Re: Welding...

Reply #12 –
Definitely sounds Irish, I like the way he does the old close the eyes welding lol

Re: Welding...

Reply #13 –
Scary stuff this welding... Tim's water spray saved the day a few times and that was after cleaning out as much VW wax as possible!

Don't know how you'd be able to safely do it without someone watching over you.

Re: Welding...

Reply #14 –
Had hoped to be showing you some piccies of the finished article, but the welders old machine has given up the go.

He needs one too much not to be getting a replacement ASAP, so hopefully we'll be back on track very soon.

Got me looking around for courses again and managed to enroll in a local college for a 15 week night class, beginning next month.

Only 2 hours, one night a week for the 'recreational user', but just what I was after and it'll get me started.