VW Golf Mk2 Owners Club

Dilemma - which one to keep

May 16, 2022, 09:51:16 AM

At some point in the near future, I'll be forced to make a decision.

Keep the Mk2 GTI or the Mk5 GTI 

The Mk2 is my car, I also have a motorbike.
The Mk5 is officially my wife's and/or the main family car.

We've had the Mk5 for 3 years now and it is a great car. It was the best example we could find at the time, see the member cars (other) section, with low ownership, great service history and amazing high-level spec. I have only seen 1 or 2 with a similar level of options. The mileage was slightly higher than I'd have liked but still reasonable, so 3 years later we haven't added to it much so most of the other Mk5s out there are now catching up.

The Mk2 I bought because I wanted another, and it was affordable. It's far from perfect but it's decent enough but I never saw it as a keeper, it was just to get me back in one. That said I have been pretty pleased with it.

Carole, my wife, has been dropping hints for a while now about replacing the Mk5. At the time we got it, I was banking on being about 4-5 years till I had to make this choice but I always thought that when the time came I would take it on as my 'future classic' and let the Mk2 go. I might be able to stall this for another year, unlikely two, but still one day I'll have to face up to it.

Now to keep either of them I know some work is going to be needed.

The Mk5 is starting to show its age (16), the wheels definitely need a fresh diamond cut and the paint has a few stone chips and blemishes so to make it perfect if I were to keep it I'd be thinking about a fresh blow over, and based on milage maybe a turbo rebuild. I could easily part with a couple of grand to get it factory fresh and to sort it out for the next 10 to 15 years. It's a future classic and tidy examples are holding their values well - although with the unknown future of petrol cars could legislation render it worthless in 10 years' time.

Whereas another 10 years (9 actually) will see the Mk2 as a Historic vehicle (assuming they keep that) and potentially exempt from sanctions.

But to keep the Mk2 long term it's likely to need a lot more work, The welding I did last year was adequate but I'm sure it'll need looking at again as I'm no pro. Maybe 4 or 5 years and it'll want professional help - at which point I'd need to decide if it's worth restoring as a factory fresh example similar to Monkey's path with the red one. With prices as they are, I'd say that over the next year the Mk2 is probably at its optimal time for selling, beyond that it's likely to start degrading again and the resale value would be in line with a rolling project car in need of work.

The replacement new car is likely to be a small economical car that reflects how we use our cars now. Most likely a Polo of some kind. Unlikely to be electric/hybrid yet but you never know.

Carole works locally, our kids are grown up and have their own transport. We don't need a big family car, although it does help to have some capacity for the odd Ikea shop or bulky Marketplace collection, etc. Keeping the Mk5 would help here, although the Mk2 is still very spacious, especially with the seats down, being basically a box!

The Mk5 has modern comforts, driver's aids and safety features that the Mk2 lacks. It's fast and powerful and the driving experience is very similar to the Mk2 with less of the worry of what might break next - but more of the worry of knowing if it does break it's going to be more expensive.

And as mentioned I have a motorbike, so I have the toy/fun element.

I know it's only a decision I can make but would be interesting to hear what you might do given the situation.

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #1 – May 16, 2022, 10:11:22 AM

The cost of owning either car would swing it for me I think the mk2 running cost would be lower. Items like insurance are going to be higher on the mk5.  Any work needed on the mk 5 could potentially be more expensive as you may not be able to carry out the work yourself. So what I am saying is I think the mk2 would probably be the keeper.

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #2 – May 17, 2022, 02:54:01 PM

Hmm I think mk2 is probably the keeper. Simple machines that you can keep going for not a lot of money. Finding a nice one is harder and harder and more costly these days vs the mk5 which has bottomed out value wise but still pretty plentiful in supply.

Mk5s have rot issues, worse i'd say than a mk2 considering the age difference and the welding you did should last as long as you protected it both inside and outside - cavity wax. Welding will be needed on both if what I see on faceache is anything to go by - their sills, behind archliners and floors all go rusty.

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #3 – May 18, 2022, 06:12:28 AM

I'd be keeping the Mk2 but I am biased. I'm not too much into modern cars. My wife had a new seat Leon and when that went my blind buy from Bristol was a Mk3 Golf Estate (1999) which she absolutely loves!  I have a mechanic friend who asked how come I got my parts so cheap. We run more than one car so I can preplan any work should it need it and I do 99.9% of my own work. I cringe when my kids tell me their garage bills.
PS Should you wish to enhance the Mk2 box carrying capability I have a spare set of roof bars.
PPS We'll also be keeping our Mk2 1.3

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #4 – May 18, 2022, 10:44:22 AM

So let me get this straight, you're asking between a mk2 and a mk5...on a mk2 forum?

I'd go for the mk2 myself, but I'm biased.
I believe both will appreciate in value, but the mk2 will do it faster.
Also, if you sell the mk2, there's a chance they might appreciate to the extent they are out of your reach...that 's what happened to me a Quattros. I've been kicking myself since.

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #5 – May 18, 2022, 11:25:17 AM

Yeah, obviously there's bias here 

I think if my Mk2 was better it would be a no brainer. But as I see the quality of other people's restorations these days I feel like I can't compete. I think the Mk2 will be the one to keep, but the Mk5 is a really nice example which will be a shame to let go ... I can't see any way to keep both and the way I use my vehicles now since the first lockdown and work from home has changed dramatically so I don't really 'need' either.

At 16 years old it's probably right to let the MK5 go before it starts to come problematic, thankfully values seem to be holding well on them.

Now I need to find something that will satisfy Carole's needs whilst also keeping me happy when I use it 

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #6 – May 18, 2022, 12:31:24 PM

What's the replacement looking like for the mk5? I'm just thinking with the mk5 you have a car that is at the bottom of the curve and appreciating in value. Even if you had to spend £2k on it tomorrow it's still the cheaper car vs buying a more modern and expensive car that still has value to loose. You may find over the next 3 years the mk5 appreciates by that £2k (made up repair value I know, but I think the price rise of that value is possible).

RE the Mk2 as long as the previous repairs were done with metal and not fibreglass etc and have been protected with paint/seam sealer etc they will last and last. I know of a reasonable mobile welder (shout if you need details) based in coventry that will travel for petrol money that can get you out of trouble if repairs are too much for DIY.

Edit just looked through your mk2 thread and it is a nice one - what makes you think it could be better?

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #7 – May 18, 2022, 06:28:31 PM

For context. replacing the mk5 is being fuelled by vanity and status, nothing more.

My wife started a new job 8 months back and quickly realised everyone had a newer car than we did. One of those cars is a really nice Polo GTI, 2017 or newer I think. That was when the seed was planted and so far I’ve resisted, mainly with the argument of not knowing which way the future of cars is going to take, saying thinks like “do we need to consider electric, will the clean air zone effect us later this year when it’s introduced to our city etc. let’s wait a couple years and see how things develop the Mk5 is fine for now” it’s also looking like the Mk5 will be CAZ exempt so no need to swap it yet.

So things died down, although there are a few lot niggly jobs I need to do on the Mk5 and whilst they’re still outstanding they are being used as ammo in favour of getting rid.

But what’s has brought this back up as a topic of conversation is that my wife wants to get a private plate, however the plate she wants is too new for the mk5 …. You couldn’t make this poo up


So while I can (and probably will) get the plate, I know it can be held off a car and we’ll have it secured for ‘whenever’ , that time will need to be not too far in the distance as I know impatience will play a factor.

We both have new jobs now, I started mine about 4 months back and we are better off as a result so it’s fair to want to have something new and nice, I mean my god it’s been a long time coming we’ve been making  my ends meet, making do and getting by.

So it’ll be looking like something less than five years old, which will then most likely be financed or leased - not sure how that works yet it’s a new area for me never having been in that position before.

Potentially in the shape of a Polo, I do like the new ones and they’ve grown so they’re not really small cars. I’m worried the spec will end up being quite basic to stop getting too carried away with cost, but it’ll need to be of a decent enough level so it doesn’t feel like a step backwards. The Mk5 is very high spec. I’m also concerned about performance, Carole doesn’t drive fast, she doesn’t even know how to use the flappy paddles and the turbo is never put under stress when she’s at the wheel…. But she does appreciate the power when joining a motorway or pulling out on a roundabout. I think bits a major safety issue to have a car that can get you out of trouble if you need it.

Anyway we might still be 6-12 months off a decision but it’s certainly looming.



Re: the mk2, it’s got a CatC recorded against it, form a previous owner. The details are unknown and although the repair seems to have been done to a high standard I know it’s there and I know where to look to spot the defects…. It did take some looking you wouldn’t know on first glance. Also it’s has something like 14 owners.

I know it doesn’t really matter and as time goes on it’ll matter less. I mean look at Beetles, who cares about the history or number of owners they’re all in their third or fourth ground up restoration by now!

But in an ideal world I’d want a straight and honest example with 4 or 5 owners. And when the time comes that it does require a deeper restoration it just makes me think would it be worth doing work to that shell?

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #8 – May 18, 2022, 07:57:33 PM

There are always two choices. Two paths to take. One is easy. And it’s only reward is that its easy.
Been in similar ‘which car’ scenario twice in my life (with wife sniping from the margins) and on both occasions went with my gut. In hindsight, unable to validate the decisions I took but wife seemed happy. Nuff said.

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #9 – May 19, 2022, 08:19:10 AM

So what kind of price are you looking at for your replacement?

As for the condition of the Mk2 Golf, I wouldn't worry too much about it, my blue one has been written off too, never even bothered to look at the number of previous owners. I just dig it out the garage and enjoy it from time to time. At the end of the day, it's how you feel when you drive the car, not what someone else will think about it.

I suppose the real question is:
Which car makes you happier?

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #10 – May 19, 2022, 01:41:04 PM

Ahh Eddy I get you now! I am blessed I have a wife that is happy to not spend with any extravegence - we inheritated a 2000 Y Reg Vauxhall Corsa (newer shape) with just 11k on the odo from her uncle and she is happy enough to drive around in it - kids clubs, station parking sort of thing. Even I bulked at the idea but it's a good little motor with plenty of life left in it. We have a family estate as well, owned near 10 years from almost new (seat exeo) which I choose to keep as replacing it will cost loads for fundamentally the same car and that part funds my VW habit.

Back to you - with your mk2 being a cat c changes things in my eyes. Sadly that rating will hold its value back forever so should probably go first and you get another mk2 without the rating if you're planning on being a long term owner and sensibly want the prospect to reap some financial benefit in years to come to offset rolling restoration costs in the future. If you never plan to sell or spend big on a resto then keep what you've got.

It is silly that the cat c holds it back so much since a restored car with say new 3/4 panels etc has had far more instrusive work than what gets cat ratings but it's just the way the market is. I could never recommend spending big and getting a cat car restored unless it had sentimental value.

The mk5 has legs to appreciate a little over the next 24mths where perhaps if you exchanged the mk2 between now and then, it could make sense to switch out the mk5 and perhaps we will all know abit more about what the future of motoring looks like.

 

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #11 – May 20, 2022, 12:28:53 PM

Now, this conversation is providing thoughts and insight that I wasn't expecting - which is exactly why I put it out there.

Monkey, I never knew the blue one was a Cat C, yet that didn't hold you back in giving it a full respray. 

MJA, interesting that with the bigger picture you've switched your thinking, sounds like you see the full extent of the dilemma now. Thanks for the extra comments.

Now I think I may have made it sound like my wife is a bit of a Diva  but she has tolerated a lot, and we've gone without and lived within our means (or with lots of debt) for a fair old time. I nearly screwed it all up big time many years back when I was self-employed but she stuck with me, so I don't begrudge anything she wants. Some of you may remember the BMW e30 that I bought her because she wanted it.... till she changed her mind  but I stick by a simple rule that helps everyone 'Happy wife = happy life'.

So, last night I popped out in the mk2 to pick up takeaway, the parking was slightly downhill, so when I came back out of the Chinese I was looking down on a gleaming white mk2, which was just catching the last rays of a setting sun. I thought to myself, that does look fantastic and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. It's almost like the 'keep' decision was made there and then.

But reading the latest comments brings some new thoughts (PS I like the SEAT Exeo, it's basically an A4, I was checking them out a while back as it would have fitted what I was after).

Depending on the time frame, I'm currently steering towards keeping the mk2 and letting the mk5 go after all. I don't think I'm ready to let the mk2 go yet. If we were talking another couple of years I might be thinking different.

When I go the Mk2 I know it helped me bag a great deal with it being a Cat C, I'd seen it for sale for a while and over time watched the price drop while it was obviously a factor putting off a lot of people. In the end I made an offer that was close to £2k under what I'd originally seen it advertised at a couple months previous! But I know I'd need to take the same hit if I were to sell it on now - as time goes on I can see the history being less of an issue to a potential buyer and more about condition.

Now one thing that did occur to me when getting it was, that at some point in the future maybe I could just pick up a replacement 3 door shell, wouldn't even need to be a GTI as base spec without arch trims and sill covers seem to have faired better against the rot, do any work needed on that shell and get it painted and rebuild it from my car - meaning it's still worth me improving my car in every way I want if I know these pieces will still end up in my final, lifetime build. An option !?!

It was more about having one again, than having 'this' one.

I don't think it would bother me that it wouldn't be an 'actual' GTI and I don't think it would matter if it were an early or late shell, I'd be less concerned with accuracy to build myself the example I want, so if I ended up with a Big Bumper E reg, complete with CE2 electrics then if that's what I wanted, so be it!

And something Monkey mentioned the other day got me thinking when I picked up a BBM bumper and not paint the bumper white but paint the car to match, so if I did go down that direction I could pick any colour so maybe a good opportunity to get a Bright Blue Metallic  .

The end result would be scrapping/or selling the old bare Cat C shell. So if I throw in the idea that my current Mk2 is a rolling parts car for some kind of future build then does that change anything?

My main concern with keeping the Mk5 is the ongoing cost and if it gets to the point where it requires more of a restoration, it would take a long time to see the value as a classic raise to a point to make it cost effective if that'll ever even happen.

But my main concern with losing the Mk5 would be not having the capability of a decent size family car when the time was needed - that could be solved in a number of ways and not necessarily by keeping the mk5:

• by not getting Carole a too small or underpowered car in the first place
• getting a cheap 'disposable' utility estate as a third car
• hire an SUV/MPV type car for a long weekend or family trip as required

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #12 – May 20, 2022, 01:18:04 PM

I think cat status is a tricky one. Yes you take a cut and a deal on buying and you will also take a hit on selling, which could be quite a big hit if values rise and balancing the cost of restoration, which would be the same cost for a non-cat car, and that might make it difficult to justify or stomach.

I think if you're wanting to change the car significantly i.e. BB E Reg CE2 then you're stepping far enough away from originality for even the cat status on your current shell to matter when considering the cars saleability (both options make it more niche). What about keeping what you have and putting a different engine in? You could get a cross between the mk5 and mk2 with a r32/1.8t swap.

I know i am focusing a lot on values and saleability vs restoration costs in the market when there are other factors of equal importance to consider. My own 16v is missing it's original engine and has an ABF block and head and I am changing the subframe to mk3. I am making my car more niche and it won't be worth as much as a bone standard oem 16v but am willingly doing it becuase I love these cars for fun we can have modifying.

 

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #13 – May 20, 2022, 01:52:07 PM

I'd keep the MK2..but then mine is my 'first child' bought back in 1996.
It is far from immaculate but looks OK at 10'. It does 90% of what I need it costs very little to run. If it goes wrong I can fix most things and it will hopefully retain its value. All plus points for you keeping the MK2.
I wish it was immaculate but then I would be afraid of supermarket dings (though they still P me off).
I've added some 'mod cons' and will no doubt add more. The only drawback is one of safety however I don't intend crashing it.
When time permits I will want to do restore the body/engine back to fine fettle.
However I do keep looking at changing the 08 Octy Scout. Early S3 @PhilC 's was very tempting a 190, or a modern Cat N Mercedes C class. I'd like to try flappy paddle driving! but Golfie will remain!

edit....have you noticed a large number of valuable fords? They may be a parts bin of basic bodyshell and valuable goodies. I can see that rubbing off on VW and rightly so.

Re: Dilemma - which one to keep

Reply #14 – May 20, 2022, 04:15:11 PM

I've been resisting commenting on this one; but I give in. Why not get your Mrs a decent motor and get to work on the MK2?  Ride your bike or use her car on occasions.
I definitely wouldn't keep a MK5, too new, parts will not be available long term = liability.