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Topic: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem? (Read 3089 times) previous topic - next topic

Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

I've been having some intermittent problems with this.  Drove down from Slough to Southampton without problems on Friday, but after stopping on an upward slope in the town to check my route, the car would not start, and I saw that there was no fuel in the see-through fuel filter.  The AA man I called out suspected I was out of fuel, even though I knew I had half a tank.  He towed me to level ground and got the car started by spraying brake cleaner into the side port of the Weber carb while I cranked the engine.  As he still suspected low/no fuel, he accompanied me to a petrol station where I topped up, which confirmed I had had half a tank all along.  Finally, he suspected a weak fuel pump (this is mechanical cam-driven on the Driver), and suggested it be investigated further.

I was next due to drive to Bristol, and this went without any problem at all.  The next day I did a short run for shopping with no problem either.   However, yesterday, having gone locally into Bristol again, initially without problem, suddenly the same issue arose, this time on level ground.  The engine died and wouldn't start.  Again, the fuel filter was empty.  I found a GSF store some way away and purchased a new fuel pump, but also got some brake cleaner, in order to emulate the AA man's trick, which worked!  Got back the 8 miles to home without further problem, until setting out again in the evening, when the problem arose again, but this time the brake cleaner trick didn't work.

I intend to swap out the fuel pump today, but what if the problem is not that?  A couple of years ago, when my trusted garage in Slough were sorting out an intermittent issue which they couldn't decide was fuel or electrically related, they replaced several units such as fuel pump and coil and distributor cap, but also removed the reservoir.  Since then, until now, the car has been running problem free, but now I can't help feeling having the reservoir in there might help to even out fuel delivery if the pump is occasionally struggling to pull sufficient fuel up from the tank (this is the only pump in the driver; there's no pump in the tank).

Is it worth renewing all the 32-year-old fixed fuel lines?  Is it an idea to have the fuel tank drained and cleaned out, if there might be 32 years worth of crud in there?  Any advice gratefully received.

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #1 –
It's been a while since I've played about with a Driver.
But do they have an electrical in tank pump?

If so, that could be your problem.
They're pretty cheap and while messy, not to difficult to swap out.

The way to tell would be to lift your boot carpet, open the round inspection panel and look at the connector going into the tank.
If it has two wires, it'll be just a level sender.
If it has four, it'll have a level sender and a pump.
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Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #2 –
I don't believe they have a pump in the tank, but I stand to be corrected if this is not so.

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #3 –
Just checked Haynes and there is no mention of a lift pump.

I would however check the pick up point in the tank.  It could be partially blocked so not allowing fuel to pass when the tank is half full.  My logic is that more than half a tank gives the head to allow the fuel to pass.  Parking on a slope allows fuel in a part full tank to move to the back of the tank reducing the pressure at the pick up.
 

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: PWardy on
Just checked Haynes and there is no mention of a lift pump.

I would however check the pick up point in the tank.  It could be partially blocked so not allowing fuel to pass when the tank is half full.  My logic is that more than half a tank gives the head to allow the fuel to pass.  Parking on a slope allows fuel in a part full tank to move to the back of the tank reducing the pressure at the pick up.

Also, would there be a gauze on the pickup? This could be blocked.
Mk2 Driver
Mk2 Silver 8v
Corrado G60 Turbo
Mk2 Red 8v
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Mk2 BBM ABF
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Mk2 Green VR6
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Mk2 BBM 20vt
3.2 TT Roadster
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Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Monkey on
Quote from: PWardy on
Just checked Haynes and there is no mention of a lift pump.

I would however check the pick up point in the tank.  It could be partially blocked so not allowing fuel to pass when the tank is half full.  My logic is that more than half a tank gives the head to allow the fuel to pass.  Parking on a slope allows fuel in a part full tank to move to the back of the tank reducing the pressure at the pick up.

Also, would there be a gauze on the pickup? This could be blocked.

That's exactly what I suspect the problem is.

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #6 –
Thanks for the replies.  Is it a relatively simple job to check the pick up point and gauze?

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Martin109 on
Thanks for the replies.  Is it a relatively simple job to check the pick up point and gauze?

Yes there is an inspection cover with three screws in the boot.  Remove it and you have access to the fuel sender secured by a big plastic retaining ring.  I'd recommend a new seal when reassembling.

Make sure you are not filled to the neck, about 1/2 tank should be fine.

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #8 –
Thanks.  It's  not going well!  Could not undo the big grey knurled ring.  It shows signs of brute force on previous attempts.

Then, to try and test existing pump, tried to remove rubber fuel pipe from connecting T-piece (which garage must have fitted in place of the reservoir they removed) the plastic T-piece snapped, so I will have to source a replacement.  Will need to wait until next week when I can get back to the vehicle.  As I already had this piece of pipe open, I tested the pump by getting the engine turning over using the AA man's brake cleaner trick.  Seemed to fill the fuel filter but not send any regular reliable spurt of fuel out of the hose end.

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #9 –
You need tools, I think the strap wrench got mine.  I think there is a fabric version of the filter chain that would fit easier.



Just tell yourself the T piece snapped because it was not fuel grade.  Get a fuel tolerant replacement.

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #10 –
I can confirm that the filter chain wrench does a good job.  Used it on mine this afternoon. To tighten up but I'm sure it will shift a sticky securing ring.

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #11 –
Thanks for the tips.

I see you have the advantage of the fuel tank out of the car, giving easier access to the grey knurled ring; it's much less accessible when in the vehicle.

I did swap out the fuel pump, and various bits of fuel line, and fitted a nice brass t-piece instead of the broken plastic one.

All this was successful, in that I got the car back the 100 miles between Bristol and Slough, and it's now at my trusted garage in Slough (Rosewood) for MOT and I've asked them to consider replacing the 32-year-old fixed fuel lines and to check on the pick up point gauze and general crud in the tank.  I imagine the there's all sorts of dirt and water at the bottom of the tank after 32 years!

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #12 –
No my tank was quite clean after 33 years but that depends who has owned it and what they have put in it.  I've seen some really nastily gummed up gauzes on the web.
The filter chain worked well through the boot floor pan, could well be what your garage uses.  Pleased you have a brass T-piece.  Don't replace the solid fuel lines (I don't think they are available anyway); it is the rubber bits on each end that fail.  Replacing them is worthwhile. 

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #13 –
New Developments:
The 1.6 Driver has a mechanical fuel pump, where an eccentic cam in the engine actuates the arm of the pump.  My trusty garage (Rosewood in Slough) have come up with a suggestion; their theory is that over 33 years successive fuel pumps have become less effective as the cam has worn, exacerbated by each pump gradually getting less efficient as it ages.  This is their explanation as to why my swapping out the latest fuel pump for a new one hasn’t quite sorted out the longstanding fuel starvation problem the car’s been having (and I mean for years!).  Their solution: fit an electric fuel pump.  As you see, they have fitted the electric fuel pump under the offside rear seat floorpan.  It works, and the carb seems quite happy with it.

The only problem is that it makes a noise.  As you see from the picture, they’ve only secured one side of the bracket, and loosely fitted an ordinary sponge in an attempt to deaden the noise!! :-\  Here are a couple of mp3s, demonstrating the noise outside the car (NB the engine is of course running in the background, but the main noise is the pump!) and inside the car. 

I’m wondering whether I could refit the pump with a piece of sound-deadening foam between it and the floorpan, with appropriate length self-tapping screws?  Maybe something cut down from this?  Would it be OK to screw into the floorpan?

Re: Mk 2 1.6 Driver Fuel Problem?

Reply #14 –
Did the garage test the mechanical pump?  Jar of fuel into an empty jar.  If the fuel flows it's not the pump.

That said perhaps there is something in it if the electric pump has fixed your running problem.  But why is it so noisy?  Again I'd test it sucking from a jar but delivering to the engine.  If it gets acceptably quiet then there is some problem other than the pump just being noisy.  I would get rid of the foam and not put a screw through the floor pan.  Ideally you need a mounting plate with rubber feet for the pump.

Edit are the pump electrical connectors sealed?  If not it will not last long.