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Historic Vehicle classification

From next year onwards we're going to start seeing the earliest of mk2's (produced in 1984) begin to qualify for historic classification. meaning Tax and MOT exempt and potentially clean air zone exempt too (I don't know if that's in all places or just some).

So thinking on that,

1. I'm a little bit gutted that I've owned an 86, 87 and 88.... but my current one is a 91 so I have to wait even longer  :))

2. am I right in thinking this cannot apply to all of these engine-swapped cars out there?

3. what might that do to prices?
- I expect the early years ones will become even more desirable over the next couple of years.
- might this devalue all the 20vt and R32 conversions out there?

I think there's something proving when the engine swap was done, so potentially some older conversions, mk3 2.0, abf or original VR6 might be able to get clearance.

I also presume that once you have a Tax and MOT-exempt vehicle you're then restricted to what you can do to it without risking the loss of that status, a bit like a listed building???

Interesting to hear thoughts on this, and I'm sure if any of you also have a mk1, or older classic this is probably stuff you've already had to work through.

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #1 –
interesting to know it might not apply to those with swapped engines, but then i suppose that makes sense. I guess it depends if people have informed DVLA or not.
 

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #2 –
It seems to go deeper than engine swaps.  The legislation talks of "substantial changes" and even says:

Axles and running gear
Alteration of the type or method of:
    suspension
    steering
is a ‘substantial change’.

Based on this wording, swapping the stock suspension for coilovers could be classed as a substantial change and mean you will need an MoT.

What would happen if you got stopped by the police with an exempt vehicle and they deemed that it had been substantially changed? Would you be charged with driving a vehicle with no MoT and would it then get classified by DVLA as a non-exempt vehicle?
1988 8v GTI, 3 door in black.  It's a bit like me, doesn't look too bad from a distance but up close.......:D

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #3 –
I'm pretty sure they'll do whatever they can to get out of giving you a free pass.

Though the chances of getting stopped in an exempt vehicle are pretty low.
Nowadays, mk2s are all peoples 2nd or 3rd cars, so they're not used a huge amount and unless you're misbehaving, the police would leave you alone.
In the late 90s I was being pulled over every other week (no exaggeration) by the police. Don't think I've been pulled over for over 10 years now. And yes, I personally qualify for MOT exemption too!!

As for the value of highly modified cars, they'll always hit a ceiling.
For a long time an engine swap would double the value over a standard car.
As they get older and rarer, the stock ones will become more and more valuable.
For example, my red one is insured for 4k more than my blue one, despite it being a 3.2 with nigh on every component upgraded.
Mk2 Driver
Mk2 Silver 8v
Corrado G60 Turbo
Mk2 Red 8v
Mk2 Grey 16v
Mk2 BBM ABF
Bora 20vt
Mk2 Green VR6
Mk2 Green ABF
Mk2 BBM 20vt
3.2 TT Roadster
Mk2 Red 16v
225 TT Coup
3.2 TT Coup
Mk4 Anniversary
Mk7 Red GTI Performance
Mk2 Red GTI Restoration
Mk2 BBM R32
911 Carrera 4S

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #4 –
Think they are looking to make genuine collectors classics exempt… if they are going to allow non original then you could buy a Morris minor shell, fit it with all new modern running gear ,a V8 and electric recaro seats make a new car and  claim exemption

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Monkey on
In the late 90s I was being pulled over every other week (no exaggeration) by the police. Don't think I've been pulled over for over 10 years now.

Same, resulting in my first Golf (GTI Engineering K-jet 8v) earning me a 6-month ban around 1998.
It's easy to assume it's the difference between being 20-something and 40-something, but I'm sure it's really down to a change in the way police work is done though.

Maybe @Damien.wrl has some insight on this. But....

Coppers used to pull you to get to know you, to check your tax, mot, insurance etc. and sometimes to just have a chat or ask about your car and the mods. Generally, I appreciated this, it was good to know they were out there doing their job and the thought that should my car get nicked there was a chance it would be spotted.

I used to be a mobile DJ, so would often be driving around in the early hours on the way back from a gig. I'd always get pulled to ask what I was doing, and often get asked to do a breath test once I've admitted I've been in a club or pub all night because of my job - which again I was fine with as I wouldn't drink and it was good to know they were out there.

Now it's all cameras and registration plate readers, they know about your Tax, MOT and insurance. And they're generally not patrolling in the same way.


Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #6 –
A little insight for you ..Back in the day I was monitored on how much self generated work I did, it wasn’t enough to just attend any job you were sent to. You were expected to stop check vehicles and people . Stop checking would produce all kinds of results drunk drivers, Wanted people as well as vehicle offences . Bald tyres and the like could be dealt with by court, the vehicle rectification scheme ( get it fixed go to an mot station so they could stamp it done) or in small towns you might even get them to come to the nick to show it was done .  Once stopped a car at 3.00 am and found the occupants had broken into a small jewellers and had a load of stolen jewellery on board.
Sadly those days are gone and no police out on the streets anymore ..

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Damien.wrl on
A little insight for you ..Back in the day I was monitored on how much self generated work I did, it wasn’t enough to just attend any job you were sent to. You were expected to stop check vehicles and people . Stop checking would produce all kinds of results drunk drivers, Wanted people as well as vehicle offences . Bald tyres and the like could be dealt with by court, the vehicle rectification scheme ( get it fixed go to an mot station so they could stamp it done) or in small towns you might even get them to come to the nick to show it was done .  Once stopped a car at 3.00 am and found the occupants had broken into a small jewellers and had a load of stolen jewellery on board.
Sadly those days are gone and no police out on the streets anymore ..

I had the vehicle rectification scheme ticket a few times, along with the producer as I never carried my docs with me. This was also ok as there used to be a local police station. If I had to go to a police station now I don't even know where I'd go. They've all been turned into retirement flats. I think there's a central one in North Bristol, but I don't know if that even has a public-facing desk or if that's just a control centre of some kind?

anyway, back on the subject of Historic Vehicle class, it'll be interesting to see what questions reappear over the next few years. 

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #8 –
As an aside to the historic vehicle malarkey . There is a code which you can apply to vehicle imports which allows you to bring old standard classic vehicles into the country at 5% duty, no vat.. I also used it on an old exhaust system

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #9 –
I have an 81 classic mini that I managed to get classified as 'historic' last year. Engine swap seems to be a kind of grey area based on what I could find on the DVLA website.

My mini was originally a 998 but now has a 1275 in it from a metro - not exactly 'original equipment' but close enough. The swap is declared and changed on the v5. To apply for the historical status I went to the local Post Office and was shocked at how quick and easy the process was. It may depend on who is at the counter when you go, but it took less than 5 minutes and I left with a receipt for £0 for tax, and got a new v5 in the post a week or so later. The person at the Post Office didn't ask a single question about the car, she just looked at the v5 and presumably just checked the date.

I also have an early 84 mk2 golf (registered 9th March 1984) so will be trying to register it as historical on 1st April next year. It is mostly standard aside from minor changes / upgrades over the years.

Afaik cars registered after 1st April 1984 will have to wait until 2025 based on DVLA's rules.

I imagine you could argue the point over an engine swap given that mk2 engines probably aren't available off the shelf any more but trying it with a 1.8T swap might be pushing your luck.

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #10 –
Quote from: saladman on
I imagine you could argue the point over an engine swap given that mk2 engines probably aren't available off the shelf any more but trying it with a 1.8T swap might be pushing your luck.

Yeah, something tells me that nearly doubling the engine capacity on my blue mk2 might invalidate a historic claim.
A 1.8t however, doesn't have a change in cc, the V5 makes no mention of turbos...
Mk2 Driver
Mk2 Silver 8v
Corrado G60 Turbo
Mk2 Red 8v
Mk2 Grey 16v
Mk2 BBM ABF
Bora 20vt
Mk2 Green VR6
Mk2 Green ABF
Mk2 BBM 20vt
3.2 TT Roadster
Mk2 Red 16v
225 TT Coup
3.2 TT Coup
Mk4 Anniversary
Mk7 Red GTI Performance
Mk2 Red GTI Restoration
Mk2 BBM R32
911 Carrera 4S

Re: Historic Vehicle classification

Reply #11 –
I have only had experience of import old vehicles and I would suggest that swapping anything other than vw available engines of the period would be not allowed , but how do they police it until you have a serious accident maybe ?