8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Topic: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest.. (Read 1566 times) previous topic - next topic

8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

January 31, 2021, 08:38:01 AM

Hi all,

I know there is a lot of information out there and I've read alot and am still not sure. Since I'm removing the engine, tank etc from my car as part of a resto I thought about putting a 16v in.

I want keep it naturally aspirated and still light so don't fancy a vr6 or 1.8t. Also have a vr6 in another car.

I've read because I am digifant it's not going to be straight forward... im not a wiring expert so which is the easiest to install, i see 3 options

1) 1.8 KR

2) ABF

3) ABF bottom and KR top. I guess this is option 1 if that is the easier route but think this option is more for existing 16v owners.

If I went option 2 are there any plug and play looms I can buy? Also does the abf option do away with the underbody fuel pump?

Cheers

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #1 – January 31, 2021, 02:44:29 PM

Partly will depend on if you just have an engine or full donor car.

16v has a different fuel pump, not sure if the 8v pump is up to the same task but a standard mk2 16v fuel pump is going to cost at least £150 these days if you can find one.

That's said changing to a MK3 tank/pump maybe possible/easier.

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #2 – January 31, 2021, 05:19:15 PM

Digi can be made to work with few issues.

The 16v is a good all round choice and rebuilt KR engine with supporting mods will be a good 150 odd bhp.

buget is the next thing, could go overbore KR like mine with ABF cams but your looking at 2k for that alone.

K-jetronic is easy enough to install but youd need a 16v pump which can be pricy

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #3 – January 31, 2021, 09:58:08 PM

I'm assuming from the list of your fleet you don't want to go 2.0 8v?

2.0 8V

I've never driven a 16v Golf, however I like the lower down flexibility of my 8v. I can make reasonable progress without having to use the revs. From what I've read a 2.0 8v conversion just improves it.

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #4 – February 01, 2021, 09:48:34 AM

Yeah I was thinking about moving on the Corrado 16v at some point but like the engine. It's 2.0 9a but hasn't had any modifications, I can only imagine an ABF or KR will be like it on steriords.

I thought as I'm going to the effort of stripping out my engine I could "pop" a 16v in my shell. It would have to be OEM with clocks.

To be fair though I haven't driven my 8v more than 10 miles so have nothing to compare it to. The other factor to consider is my car is a 1 owner car - it might be worth keeping it original spec wise and having a look at a 268 cam and head refurb/port & polish. I just can't leave things alone.. my vr6 has 263 cams and a head refurb and it made a huge difference.

The flip side however is that the engine isn't lower mileage (168k but clocks stopped, suspect it's more like 185k). The chap that owned it just used it for commuting to his office in town (country lanes/a road/mway type stuff). Engine runs well aside from a blow on the exhaust somewhere towards the front.

Andy I hadn't really thought about a 2.0 8v. I'd probably like to keep my 1.8 head and just use it's bottom end for aethetics in the engine bay. Another option to consider and defo the most straight forward it looks.

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #5 – February 01, 2021, 11:20:18 AM

For 'ease' and ABF would be the quickest way, as you can still retain your 8v fueling setup.
But you're still looking at a fair job and it would look like an ABF and not a KR.
You could run all the KR fueling/wiring setup and run the ABF short engine with the KR ancillaries to keep the look, but that 's not exactly easy.

Personally, with a single owner car and a resto, I'd stick with the original engine.
My blue one was an 8v and it was huge fun to drive, even showing mk5 and 6 gtis it's rear bumper at Rockingham before they shut it.

I know it's kinda rich to say that, as I then stuck a 3.2 in, but I've literally just bought an 8v GTI with the intention of restoring it as an 8v.

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #6 – February 01, 2021, 11:42:30 AM

I see what you're saying (your R32 converted mk2 is a beaut btw!). I'm at the stage where I am getting itching feet sitting thinking about it rather than getting my hands dirty.

I'm building my garage at the end of month (assuming it gets delivered) so can get cracking with this car after that. I don't drive that fast anyway and suspect a midly cammed 8v will be a lot of fun. I should remember it's a lot lighter than my other cars and I suspect a mildly tuned 8v will be quicker than say my corrado 16v. Not that i drive them particularly fast anyway.

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #7 – February 01, 2021, 11:53:24 AM

I'm with Monkey, I've had a number of 8v's. My first one had the advantage of being seen to by the rather clever guys at GTI Engineering. It was much much quicker than a 16v. I had a guy trying it on in a Mk2 Astra 2.0 GTE and I made it look like he was in a 1.2!

To quote a very good mate (that worked for VW in the 90s) :

"I've driven a lot of these and it SHOULDN'T go like this"

Needless to say I lost my license in that car, it made me behave like a proper hooligan. lol.

In my opinion the characteristics of an 8v are just great, and with a medium cam and a good tune up it's perfectly capable without a load of expense or the need for a big heavy lump up front. I'd personally tune an 8v and potentially stick a 2.0 bottom end in it. 150bhp should be easily achievable.

but for upgrades here's my take on it.... (Not that I have any personal experience)

Early 8v are K-jet, so same fuelling as 16v KR. So if you were starting with a k-jet I'd opt for a pre-90s KR conversion. A Corrado 9a is also k-jet but like the 90s spec KR these will be on CE2 loom so a bit more effort converting the loom as far as I'm aware.

A later (late 1987 onwards) 8v is digi and has lower pressure fuel pump, to convert this to KR you'd need under-car pump set up so I'd opt for ABF instead, will be simpler from a fuelling point of view at least. You'll still need CE1 to CE2 loom conversation.

A 90 spec 8v (late 1989 onwards) will have CE2 wiring loom, so ABF would be the ideal option there.

But I'd still go just for a cam and very good service and get it set up properly.

One other thing to consider which is often overlooked is the gearing, back to my GTI engineering, I help shattering gearboxes! In the end I bought a scirocco off a mate of mate that had been written off due to light front end damage. I put the gearbox form that in it and it was a demon. I wish I could remember more about the spec, but the ratio was so well matched to the power. Power was instant using the whole rev range, gearing was lovely and topped out at 139 mph. My experience of a 16v is they take a while to come alive.

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #8 – February 01, 2021, 01:25:51 PM

Thanks Eddy that is a great summary on what's what. Looks like I might go full circle and stick with what i've got and put a mild cam on it. The 8v is not sounding like a poor relation of the 16v that maybe I thought it might have been.

I came across this Peter Baldwin video this morning on a mk1 cab 8v and he got 149hp out of it. I'd be happy be more than happy with that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-cKu8eIIU

It's a shame he's no longer doing this in Wimpole as that garage is only 5 or so miles from my house!

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #9 – February 01, 2021, 02:53:00 PM

As Tim said, a well setup 8v can be an amazing car to drive.
There's a lot to be said for driving an older, less powered car at ten tenths, knowing that is something doesn't go to plan, you can probably still rescue it.

Problem is, nowadays, everyone is extracting huge numbers out of modern engines and 108 bhp sounds pitiful.
People keep asking me if I'm going to supercharge my 3.2, when to be honest, it's got too much as it is!
2nd will do 70 and 3rd will hit 110, completely destroying my licence and anything I might hit (including me!) in the process.
Truth be told, the only place I can really wring it's neck and have fun is out on the track.
You don't get that problem with an 8v, just keep it pinned and go for the next corner...

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #10 – February 01, 2021, 03:22:16 PM

Quote from: pfnsht on February 01, 2021, 01:25:51 PM

Thanks Eddy that is a great summary on what's what. Looks like I might go full circle and stick with what i've got and put a mild cam on it. The 8v is not sounding like a poor relation of the 16v that maybe I thought it might have been.

I came across this Peter Baldwin video this morning on a mk1 cab 8v and he got 149hp out of it. I'd be happy be more than happy with that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw-cKu8eIIU

It's a shame he's no longer doing this in Wimpole as that garage is only 5 or so miles from my house!

Great to see peter working his magic, had my mini on them rollers a few times, its well known that the figures were always a bit optimistic on those rollers but 140 odd bhp is nothing to turn your nose up at.

I'm fairly local too being near Ely, but used to work in Hatley St. George.

I don't know if you know but Peter does a few days a week on the rolling road @ Regency autos in Cherry Hinton, Cambridge.
Run by the Deegan brothers (I believe) who bought and now race Peters legendary Mini Miglia racecar seen in that vid.

Re: 8v to 16v - which one is easiest..

Reply #11 – February 01, 2021, 04:06:14 PM

No way I thought he'd retired! That's really good to know he's still about thanks for sharing!

I'm south of Cambridge in a village on the borders with Herts - it's only 30 mins in the car