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Topic: Talk to me about compressors (Read 2313 times) previous topic - next topic

Talk to me about compressors

I have an old (2004) ABBAC 50 litre, 2hp compressor.
I bought it second hand around 2014 (faulty) so I got a service kit and rebuilt the motor.

It's served me well since, but is now not reaching full pressure (as it was when I bought it) and I've contacted the supplier and service parts are no long available so looks like I'm going to have to replace it.

I always said when it's time to replace it I'd like to get 100 litre one as it would be more useable.

However there's a couple of 'cons'.
1. Cost. Looking at £300ish.
2. Thinking when I want to do a quick tyre pressure check, I'll have to fill a 100 litre tank.
3. It will take up more space.


So wondering if spending a decent amount to get a good spec 50 litre one, rather than an entry level 100 litre and keep my old 50 litre tank and build a coupling system so I can run them joined to give me 100 litre when I need it (high intensity air tools or painting) is a good compromise. I could keep the reserve tank out the way when not needed so the compressor won't take up so much space. Or should I just bite the bullet and go for 100 litres (but still keeping the old one to give 150 litres if needed).


On my radar at the mo
100 litre £300:
https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc100v-100-litre-high-flow-air-compressor

or 50 litre £250:
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/airmaster-tiger-16550-3hp-50-litre-air-compres/

Any thought, advice, personal experience or links to products greatly welcomed. For my it's a big expense so it's important to get it right.

Cheaper 50 litres have a lower air displacement, this one is 14.5cfm which is equal to the 100 litre one above. But should I just spend the extra £50

The other alternative is spend less, a more realistic price of about £125 off eBay and take a chance, I'd still be able to have 100 litre linked capacity just a lower cfm.

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #1 –
You might recall I was sounding out opinions on those wheeled trolleys for moving cars about a few years ago?

Long story short I used SGS for the ones I chose... personally I'd go elsewhere, very bad buying experience.

Took the money, didn't arrive. When I queried wherabouts they wanted more postage than quoted but hadn't thought to tell me. Weeks passed then they cancelled the order / were slow to refund.  

Product itself wasn't the issue, though in case it matters they were just re-branding generic chinese stuff as their own and I ended up getting them elsewhere for less.

Everyone has an off day but this was via Amazon and there were pages of similarly poor service reviews.

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #2 –
Hmmmm, yes I do remember. Thanks for the input.
I did wonder about the brand as SGS clearly don't manufacture all these things themselves.

I was thinking of firing off a message to SGS about service parts, as there's nothing on their website. Their reply, should they even send one, would no doubt give me a sense of what they're like to deal with.

The good thing about my old one, being a decent brand, parts and servicing items are (were) available. Fair enough for a commercial brand it's their entry level item and is now 17 years old. The service kit I bought (when the compressor was already 10 years old) included a small foam filter which disintegrated to dust so had most likely been on the shelf a long time and was already NOS.

I don't consider equipment like this to be disposable so I'd like to know there are spares available for a decent lifespan afterwards.

The current equivalent of what I have is only £163, I might look again at their range.

Maybe just go up a model to this:
https://www.air-compressorsdirect.co.uk/abac-montecarlo-l25p-9cfm-at-10-bar-run-off-a-13-amp-supply
without getting carried away spending too much, it might be lower cfm but would probably be a better long term investment from a tried and tested brand (not built in China) and stock up on a couple of service kits at time of purchase.



Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #3 –
Thought I'd add where I'm at with this. It might help anyone else looking for a home/DIY compressor.

After a few late nights of research, reviews and asking around on other more specific forums.

General opinion is what I'm looking at is mostly all generic (probably Chinese) stuff rebranded. Whilst I'm certain that's the case with SGS as there's no way they manufacture the wide variety of items they sell, it was also suggested that applies even the entry level ABAC ones, although they seem to be their own well established brand and documentation highlights their unique ABAC pump - maybe that's just the bigger models. tbf, they all do seem to have very similar case mouldings etc.

So from that point of view it doesn't really matter which brand I go for, it's all about spec of the machine.

I've been pointed towards belt driven, as apparently they are considerably quieter and because they have a separate pump and motor (connected via a belt) it makes it easier (and potentially cheaper) to replace one or the other if needed in the future. And because the motor is kind of an auxiliary part, like for like replacement isn't even needed.

Sounds good right, well there's a catch.

Belt driven are generally more expensive, although I have found some that would be a consideration as only a shade over my set £300 budget. But the issue is these are considered to be industrial machines not domestic, and although some are sold with a 13amp plug fitted it is required they have a dedicated (over 16 amp) power supply, i.e. a separate ring main like your cooker has.

Without this you risk tripping the power on every start up, and reading peoples feedback this is common on forums.
Whilst I have had the house re-wired and the Garage has it's own consumer unit (replaced last year) the circuit breakers in the Garage are only 16 amp and generally our electrics are very sensitive so I'm just not going to chance it as I would find that massively annoying.

And with regards to belt drive being quieter. I'm a tad confused by this comment as the written specs don't indicate this. Also maybe the sound is softer and more acceptable. I mean decibels is how loud right, not how annoying. 

My current oilless direct drive has a 99db sticker on it.

The up to date equivalent model is rated at 75db. What I would get if I just wanted a direct replacement :
https://www.air-compressorsdirect.co.uk/abac-piston-compressors/abac-direct-drive/abac-montecarlo-o20p-8cfm-at-8-bar-run-off-a-13-amp-supply

A better spec, oiled lubricated one, which was a strong contender is rated at 73db:
https://www.air-compressorsdirect.co.uk/abac-piston-compressors/abac-direct-drive/abac-montecarlo-l30p-11cfm-at-10-bar-run-off-a-13-amp-supply

However asking I was recommended this brand and when looking they had a belt driven one, so I thought great (before I found out about the power supply issue)
https://gtair.co.uk/air-compressors/1-burisch-bt-390t-90-litre-3hp-belt-drive-air-compressor-5060523510009.html
but delivery on this was going to push the price up over the £300 budget.

so if I was going to spend more, that brings me back to this that seems to be identical but would be a few quid less.
This says 99db, same as what I currently have - so this one was winning through till I saw the power issue:
https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc90b-90-litre-air-compressor-14cfm

I assume the power issue would be the same for the SGS and the Burisch one, and all of this type. Just some suppliers don't seem to warn you.

I did find this bargain generic unknown brand one on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08ZJZT315/?coliid=I1ON6FACP7SQ1P&colid=3QQB76UI7FWO3&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

But if it looks cheap and crap in the pictures I wonder what it would be like in real life, whilst the price is attractive I'd be very worried about after sales support, warranty claims and parts availability.

and finally after going all around the house I'm back to the SGS 100 direct drive one, which I'm fairly sure will be the one I go for say 97db, so would be on par with what I'm used to, if not a shade quieter:
https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc100v-100-litre-high-flow-air-compressor

Now what I didn't factor when looking at the ABAC ones, is the prices are shown minus VAT and shipping, so looking at maybe not spending so much, but the time it's in the basket I'm at over £300 anyway so may as well go for the last one I linked!!!

It might be Chinese, it might be noisy, but it will be bigger, more powerful, more useful and possibly quieter than what I currently have to compare it with. So it has to be a step up, without getting carried away into professional machines and spending a fortune.

And about SGS, I fired off an email raising my concerns about parts availability and I had a callback 8am next day, which I missed, but they followed up with an email stating "Rest assured we supply all spares, back up and comprehensive support." whether it's true or not, they were on the ball with the reply. Perhaps L90E was just unlucky. Or maybe they put the effort into Pre-sales and not After-sales.


So sure it's not long before I hit the buy now button. I think I'm almost there with my decision.










 

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #4 –
If you plan to do any paint spraying I think you will want a twin piston motor. Apparently reduces splatter when the tank starts to refill and refills quicker.

At least I think I read that somewhere.

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #5 –
Quote from: sly_gti on
If you plan to do any paint spraying I think you will want a twin piston motor. Apparently reduces splatter when the tank starts to refill and refills quicker.

At least I think I read that somewhere.

Yes. The motors are essentially 2 stroke. so rather than being inhale, exhale, with 2 opposing pistons when one is inhaling the other is exhaling. So there's a smoother more continuous flow of air rather than a pulse. Not sure how belt drive work but I guess there's a similar theory as the air slow is not a direct result of the exhale of the motor, instead the motor drives a separate pump which is probably able give air continuously.

The last one I linked, which was the first one I linked in my original post is a twin piston motor. So as well as smoother I guess is can deliver more capacity filling the tank sooner.

Another point I've learned. I was told once to always empty and drain the compressor after use. Moisture builds up inside the tank and as they're metal you don't want them to rust inside. You also don't want moisture in your air as this will be added to the paint. However thinking back I think I was told this at college when I was airbrushing and had a small 1.5 litre air brush compressor. Maybe it was more important on a smaller scale.

Anyway talking to people now about this and they all tend to leave their compressors pressurised permanently. Meaning when you come to use it, it's already ready and you don't need to wait for the tank to fill. Assuming you have no leaks, and if you do you should fix them!

So if I do that, my concern over filling a 100 litre tank instead of a 50 litre would take longer is not longer anything to worry about. And I suppose moisture traps on the outlet solve the moisture in air issue. I have a double trap on my current one. So I'll fit that to any new one I get as it dosen't look like they come with any.
 

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #6 –
So I did a buy, I went with option A https://www.sgs-engineering.com/sc100v-100-litre-high-flow-air-compressor



It might be noisy and a belt drive might be better, but it's the best compromise for value for money and usability for DIY/Hobby use.
I've also promised Carole she'll never have to paint another fence panel with a brush, as they can now be sprayed, therefore presenting it to the 'accountant' as a priceless asset.

3-5 days delivery so with the pending bank holiday weekend I probably won't get it for ages

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #7 –
I recommend getting an airline on a retractable real if you can. Mine isn't and it's a right pain

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #8 –
Quote from: sly_gti on
I recommend getting an airline on a retractable real if you can. Mine isn't and it's a right pain

 I’ve got one on a reel but not retractable. But it’s rolled backwards if you get what I mean so you roll it out with you to the car. It works well that way.

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #9 –
Came next day, which was Thursday before Bank holiday which was nice. So even though I selected the 3-5 day free delivery option and didn't pay £25 for next day.

It's quieter than my old one, maybe that just shows my old one was more knackered than I thought.
Fills up pretty quick, and hold pressure just fine.

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #10 –
I've just bought the lower powered (9.6 CFM) 50l version of the SGS. Buying expeirence was OK but not great - slow to get back to me and it took a week to send out as they'd put the order on hold but didn't think to tell me that.

It is pretty loud and people did advise on a belt driven one. Mine was bought purely on budget (£150 with a bundle of attachments) as it's my first compressor. I'm hoping the compressor won't run all the time as it will do my head in if that's the case.

I also bought an impact wrench from them that seems of good quality but  no matter how much i tighten the threads it still leaks. I guess i need some ptfe tap.

My fusebox in the garage is a 16amp. It runs from another outhouse with it's own fusebox at 16amp. The house is 32amp  on the circuit. I've not had any problems in the garage but before my electrics were installed my welder ran on an extenion cable from the outhouse to the garage and that tripped the fusebox.

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #11 –
Yes, budget is always the deciding factor isn't it. And it's easy to get pushed to spend more. I was hoping to stay around the £250 mark, but pushed it up to £300 to get the bigger model, but couldn't justify pushing the budget any further.

Guess I struck lucky with the buying experience.

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #12 –
Old vs New




The motor is now stripped off my old one and I just need to work out the correct couplings to use the 50 litre tank as an external reservoir.

I was also talking to Carole about sand blast cabinets, now this one is capable enough to run one, whereas my old one wasn't... possibly one for the Christmas list.

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #13 –
Same compressor as mine, mines been spot on

Re: Talk to me about compressors

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Eddypeck on
Old vs New




The motor is now stripped off my old one and I just need to work out the correct couplings to use the 50 litre tank as an external reservoir.

I was also talking to Carole about sand blast cabinets, now this one is capable enough to run one, whereas my old one wasn't... possibly one for the Christmas list.

I had a blasting cabinet for a while, a bench one. I would avoid them as they are too shallow.
There are some guides on how to build one.

Think of the biggest thing you may want to blast and go from there, probably a wheel.